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Revisitar a WCW

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Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Superfly em Seg Fev 09 2015, 15:43



Isto é uma thread igual às que o Ribeiro abriu sobre a ECW e a ROH.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Superfly em Seg Fev 09 2015, 15:58

Fingerpoke of Doom



Um dos maiores mitos implantados pela IWC, em que dizem que o Fingerpoke of Doom enterrou por completo a WCW e culpam o angle da nWo por a empresa ter ido à falência por motivos que nada têm haver com o angle da nWo. Culpar o fim de uma empresa devido a um angle é sempre giro. No entanto, culpam o angle da nWo e números para sustentarem a sua opinião que é bom, nunca na vida.

No spoiler abaixo está um comentário de um utilizador no reddit a explicar exactamente o que ocorreu depois do FPOD e da maneira como deixou a WCW "red hot" de novo.

Spoiler:
The overall rating of the January 4th, 1999 edition of WCW Monday NITRO, was an impressive 5.0 head to head with WWF Monday Night RAW which drew an overall rating of 5.7. This was WCW's highest rating since October 21st, 1998.

Your claim that the FPOD quarter hour rating was only high was because Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash was advertised & not Hollywood Hogan vs. Kevin Nash is incorrect.

NITRO was a 3 hour show with 12 quarter hours. In QH #8, Mean Gene Okerlund interviewed Nash who said Hogan was behind Goldberg getting arrested for stalking Miss Elizabeth, so he asked WCW President Ric Flair for a match against Hogan. He said he knows Hogan, despite his retirement, is still under contract and he could make it happen. Flair walked out & agreed with Nash’s thoughts & granted him the match. This gave WCW a good hour to promote Hogan vs. Nash.

For the record Goldberg vs. Nash was not the only thing advertised for this show...so was Hogan's return in what was billed in as his retirement speech. Hogan vs. Nash for the first time ever was just as big a deal if not more so than Goldberg vs. Nash so I'm really having a hard time trying to comprehend your assertion that the only reason the FPOD drew was because Goldberg vs. Nash was advertised. It's almost as if your dismissing the drawing power of Hogan & Nash at the time which is asinine.

Both NITRO & RAW had 5 minute overruns on this night so you're wrong in claiming NITRO had a 15 minute unopposed overrun advantage.

“While the big switch of audiences to see The Rock vs. Mick Foley is much remembered, what is forgotten, is a Goldberg run-in on Nitro and Austin run-in on RAW were going on at the same time for the overrun. Goldberg saw Nitro bring its audience back, going from a 4.6 to a 6.5, taking many of those viewers back from Raw which went from a 5.9 to a 5.1. The growth of the final segment of Nitro, many returning after Foley had won the title, was an incredible 2.1 million viewers, among the biggest growth periods in history. Between the two shows on that night during the overrun, there were 13,827,000 viewers watching wrestling. ” - Dave Meltzer

RAW (2 hour show)

QH #8: Rock vs. Mankind (6.2)

QH #9: Rock vs. Mankind (5.9)

Overrun: Rock vs. Mankind (5.1)

NITRO (3 hour show)

QH #11: DDP vs. Brian Adams (4.1)

QH #12: FPOD (4.6)

Overrun: FPOD (6.5)

As you can clearly see by the quarter hour ratings the FPOD increased NITRO's viewership & deceased RAW's. In QH #12 the FPOD increased NITRO's rating by 0.5 & deceased RAW's by 0.3. In the Overrun the FPOD increased NITRO's rating by 1.9 & decreased RAW's by 0.8.

What you're doing is attributing Tony Schiavone infamous comments regarding Mick Foley that same night, which he made in QH #8 & QH #9 to the FPOD in QH #12 which is unfair. At the time of the announcement in QH #8 & QH #9, roughly 375,000 homes & a total of 600,000 viewers at that moment switched from NITRO to RAW.

People who point to the FPOD as the death of WCW are idiots who have been either jumped on the bandwagon of popular but false narratives that plague the IWC or have been influenced by books like The Death of WCW which is wildly inaccurate, extremely biased & fails to challenge conventional wisdom. The book if you're being charitable, is incomplete. If you're being honest, it's a quick-buck hack job written by a couple of Meltzer's stooges who weren't there & have their own agenda, so they gleaned selective "facts" from Wrestling Observer Newsletters, basically rewriting Meltzer's work for fun & profit.

Now you're starting annoy me because now I'm having to repeat myself. I've already told you...“From Aug 97 to Apr 99 NITRO's monthly average rating drew a 4.0 or above. In May 99 the average rating dropped to down to 3.40 from the 4.17 it drew in Apr 99.” ...so I guess I'm going to have to literally have to spell it out so you can get it. The average rating of NITRO from Jul 97 to May 99:

Jul 97 (3.43)

Aug 97 (4.30)

Sep 97 (4.14)

Oct 97 (4.15)

Nov 97 (4.07)

Dec 97 (4.06)

Jan 98 (4.52)

Feb 98 (4.80)

Mar 98 (4.66)

Apr 98 (4.63)

May 98 (4.00)

Jun 98 (4.00)

Jul 98 (4.67)

Aug 98 (4.98)

Sep 98 (4.62)

Oct 98 (4.65)

Nov 98 (4.24)

Dec 98 (4.25)

Jan 99 (4.85)

Feb 99 (4.68)

Mar 99 (4.05)

Apr 99 (4.17)

May 99 (3.40)

If the FPOD had such a negative impact then the big decrease in ratings would have occurred Jan 99 not 4 months later in May 99. Your claim that the follow up of the FPOD did kill WCW is complete bullshit. As you can see from the numbers above the average rating from Jan 99 to Apr 99 remained above a 4.0 which in line with what WCW had been doing since Aug 97.
Once again I'm having repeat myself...

“nWo dominated TV in Jan, Feb & March 99 & was still prominent in April 99. Long term injuries to Luger (biceps tear in Jan), Hall (personal problems in March) Hogan (knee surgery in April) meant that come May 99 the nWo angle was quietly dropped which coincidentally just so happens to be when ratings noticeably & significantly decreased."

Your claim that NITRO never drew a 4.0 after April 99 is incorrect. NITRO drew a 4.0 on August 30th, 99 & a 4.1 on September 6th, 99.

You claim “The fact is that there was a steady decrease in interest for the product they were producing. Buyrates and attendance also back this up with decreasing numbers” yet provide nothing to prove your claim. The big difference between me & you is I back myself points up with the numbers i.e. facts.

Average rating for NITRO in 98 (which was WCW's most profitable & successful ratings year) was a 4.43. Average rating for RAW in 98 was a 4.35. Average rating for NITRO during first 4 months of 99 was a 4.45.

Average WCW House Show attendance:

Feb 98 - 6,879

May 98 - 6,379

Sep 98 - 8,086

Oct 98 - 7,559

Nov 98 - 6,654

Dec 98 - 10,243

Jan 99 - 8,661

Feb 99 - 8,814

Mar 99 -7,934

April 99 - 6,876

You claim “While the Fingerpoke of Doom 'killing the company' is oversimplifying the problem, overall, it was the catalyst that would lead to WCW losing their last chance to recover from the resurging WWF.” Absolute nonsense.

How simple-minded & naive can one be to believe that the FPOD killed or even contributed to the decline of WCW. A combination of a lack of support from Time Warner (due to Ted Turner's decreased influence), corporate sabotage from people who had never wanted WCW (Turner Broadcasting's redheaded stepchild) to be successful in the first place, being handcuffed creatively by standards & practices & therefore being unable to compete with raunchy WWF Attitude content, introduction of *EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization), injuries to top stars etc. lead to the decline of WCW, not a wrestling angle.

WCW SuperBrawl 99 was the joint third highest PPV buyrate in WCW history. Now you're insulting my knowledge...a PPV buyrate is the percentage of homes who have PPV capability that purchased an event.

PPV-capable homes:

1987 - 7,504,200

1988 - 9,195,900

1989 - 13,666,900

1990 - 16,461,300

1991 - 20,082,960

1992 - 24,029,040

1993 - 28,240,320

1994 - 31,457,400

1995 - 31,478,000

1996 - 34,913,160

1997 - 36,260,950

1998 - 36,856,050

1999 - 39,752,040

Starrcade 1988 did a 1.8 PPV buyrate but at that time that translated into approximately 180,000 PPV buys.

Starrcade 1997 drew a 1.9 PPV buyrate but at that time that translated into approximately 650,000 PPV buys.

WrestleWar 1991 did a 1.20 PPV buyrate = 120,000 PPV buys

SuperBrawl 1999 did a 1.15 PPV buyrate = 485,000 PPV buys.

I disagree in regards to the staleness of the nWo members.

Although I do know there was a lot of displeasure among smarks in regards to Hollywood Hogan returning to the top position at a time when it seemed they would have liked to see anyone other than him in the slot, I don't recall there being much displeasure from smarks much less casual fans for the other nWo members.

Reuniting The Outsiders meant the ratings–drawing Kevin Nash/Scott Hall chemistry was back. Nash was at the peak of his popularity. Hall was a diminished commodity but he still had that undeniable charisma that made him ooze with star–power. Hogan benefitted from the rub that came from standing next to Hall & Nash rather than Brian Adams & Vincent. Lex Luger was a good role player & turning heel injected new life into his persona. Scott Steiner & Buff Bagwell were two of the freshest acts in the industry at the time.

Below shows those responsible for drawing the highest quarter hour rating of each episode of NITRO during first 4 months of 99:

*4 Jan 99 (6.5) FPOD/nWo beatdown of Goldberg
**7 Jan 99 (5.6) nWo B&W confront nWo Wolfpac
*11 Jan 99 (5.5) Steiner w/Bagwell vs. DDP
18 Jan 99 (5.3) Hall vs. Goldberg vs. Bigelow w/nWo run-in
25 Jan 99 (5.3) Hogan/Nash/Steiner vs. Flair/Mongo/Benoit
1 Feb 99 (4.8) Steiner w/Bagwell vs. Jericho
8 Feb 99 (6.4) Outsiders vs. Flair/Mongo
15 Feb 99 (5.0) Hogan vs. Piper w/nWo run-in
22 Feb 99 (4.9) Nash/Luger int, Nash vs. Rey, Steiner vs. Goldberg
29 Feb 99 (4.3) Hogan/Nash/nWo segment
8 March 99 (5.7) Flair vs. Goldberg w/nWo run-in
*15 March 99 (5.4) Hogan/Nash vs. Flair/Goldberg
22 March 99 (4.1) Hogan/Nash host Miss Nitro, Goldberg vs. Hak
29 March 99 (3.8) Hart/Goldberg segment, Bagwell vs. Smiley
5 April 99 (5.4) Hogan vs. Flair vs. Goldberg vs. DDP
12 April 99 (5.4) Sting vs. Flair, Steiner vs. DDP
19 April 99 (5.0) Nash vs. Flair
26 April 99 (4.9) Sting vs. DDP

*NITRO beat RAW
**THUNDER

nWo was involved in highest QHR of every NITRO during first 4 months of 99 excluding the very last week. nWo dominated TV in Jan, Feb & March 99 & was still prominent in April 99. Long term injuries to Luger (biceps tear in Jan), Hall (personal problems in March) Hogan (knee surgery in April) meant that come May 99 the nWo angle was quietly dropped which coincidentally just so happens to be when ratings noticeably & significantly decreased. Having no contingency plan outside of the nWo; IMO WCW should have stayed with nWo angle as it was still drawing. From Aug 97 to Apr 99 NITRO's monthly average rating drew a 4.0 or above. In May 99 the average rating dropped to down to 3.40 from the 4.17 it drew in Apr 99.

While I do agree to an extent that Hogan vs. Flair feud shouldn't have been used as the centrepiece of the product at the time, you can't say it wasn't drawing.

Finger Poke Of Doom edition of NITRO drew a 5.0 rating. THUNDER 3 days later drew a 4.3 rating; the joint 2nd highest rating THUNDER ever drew in the history of the show. NITRO on Jan 11, 99 also drew a 5.0 rating. Below I've compared NITRO ratings for last 2 months (Nov/Dec 98) prior to FPOD & first 2 months (Jan/Feb 99) after FPOD:
2 Nov 98 (4.1) - 4 Jan 99 (5.0)
9 Nov 98 (4.1) - 11 Jan 99 (5.0)
16 Nov 98 (4.3) - 18 Jan 99 (4.4)
23 Nov 98 (4.5) - 25 Jan 99 (5.0)
30 Nov 98 (4.2) - 1 Feb 99 (4.7)
7 Dec 98 (4.2) - 8 Feb 99 (5.7)
14 Dec 98 (4.2) - 15 Feb 99 (3.9)
21 Dec 98 (4.0) - 22 Feb 99 (4.8)
28 Dec 98 (4.6) - 29 Feb 99 (4.3)

Results indicate ratings were better 7 out of 9 weeks after FPOD. Average rating for NITRO in Nov/Dec 98 was a 4.24 while average rating in Jan/Feb 99 was a 4.75 meaning the average rating increased 0.51 after FPOD. Jan 99 was the 2nd best ratings month in NITRO history with a 4.85 average rating & Feb 99 was the 4th best ratings months in NITRO history with a 4.68 average rating. It's worth nothing the Feb 8, 99 unopposed edition of NITRO drew a 5.7 rating which was 2nd highest rating NITRO ever drew in the history of the show.

SuperBrawl 99 headlined by Hogan vs. Flair drew 15,880 people for a gate of $550,651 & a PPV buyrate of 1.15 which is the joint third highest PPV buyrate in WCW History (alongside Starrcade 98) plus only 0.06 lower than WWF St' Valentine Day's Massacre PPV headlined by Steve Austin vs. Vince McMahon that same month.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Deus em Seg Fev 09 2015, 16:36

Aposto que o tal utilizador é o nwowolfpacktv lulz
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Superfly em Seg Fev 09 2015, 16:37

O que é que tem? Sim é.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Deus em Seg Fev 09 2015, 16:43

DA BAD GUY escreveu:O que é que tem? Sim é.

Tem que ele é só ridículo. Não li este post (lol o tamanho), mas sei bem como é a personagem.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Moore em Seg Fev 09 2015, 16:48

Nesses números que apresentaste vês um pico provocado pelo FPOD e vês logo a seguir um fosso enorme nos meses seguintes. O que mostra que houve buzz com o caso (lógico) mas que depois disso o booking que teve foi péssimo e a consequência que daí adveio foi mais negativa que positiva. Sim, o Fingerpoke of Doom foi o primeiro sinal do enterro que a WCW mereceu levar.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Superfly em Seg Fev 09 2015, 16:50

Claro, porquê? Porque critica os smarks por terem a mania de que o Bryan é que é muita bom e que está tão over como o Steve Austin em 2001?

Moore, os números da WCW caíram em Maio de 99, logo quando o angle da nWo também caiu.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Moore em Seg Fev 09 2015, 16:57

Começaram a baixar em Fevereiro e tiveram uma subida de 0.12 de Março para Abril, portanto, começaram a descer mesmo em Fevereiro. É lógico que o FPOD levantou os ratings a curto prazo. Vamos lá, se formassem ou re-formassem, wtv, uma stable qualquer com 3 ou 4 top stars nos dias de hoje, por mais ridículo que fosse o angle da formação, ela ia aumentar os ratings a curto prazo. Simples. A longo prazo poderia causar mais danos que benefícios, como aconteceu neste caso. O nWoWolfpacTV que chore pelos ratings e pelas draws em vez de se preocupar em ver wrestling.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Superfly em Seg Fev 09 2015, 17:17

Ainda assim, o mês de fevereiro foi o quarto mês com melhores ratings da história do Nitro (atrás apenas de Ago/98, Jan/99 e Fev/98), tiveram a terceira maior buy rate na sua história (atrás do Starrcade 97 e Bash at the Beack 98), os house shows estavam muito bem e a edição do Nitro de 8 de Fevereiro teve um rating de 5.7 (acima do Nitro que teve Goldberg/Hogan no main event) foi a segunda mais vista de sempre apesar de não ter oposição do Raw.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Mithrandir em Seg Fev 09 2015, 17:23

Fico, feliz por teres criado um tópico sobre isto, que serve essencialmente para falarmos sobre coisas vindas da WCW.

O problema da WCW é que o pessoal que tinha muito backstage power não percebe nada de gestão a longo prazo de uma industria. Não percebe a necessidade de evoluir, e é normal que tenham ido abaixo. É algo que estou farto de dizer ao Teixeira mas que ele nunca percebeu. Nem ele nem o nwowolfpacktv. Felizmente ambos nunca estarão à frente de algo.

Basicamente o que a WCW fez desde a criação da NWO foi estar sempre a vender o mesmo produto. Imaginem a Apple sempre a apostar na Apple II invés de fazer investimentos e apostar noutros produtos. Claro que aquilo era o que dava dinheiro, mas isso não significa que vá servir para as necessidades das pessoas e ser constantemente uma fonte de dinheiro.

Gajos como o Nash, Russo, Bischoff, Teixeira, nwowolfpac, nunca perceberam isso. Acho que aquilo que vende no dia de hoje é a única coisa que se deve apostar no dia de amanhã.  Acham que percebem o fã casual de hoje em dia, mas não sabem. O fã casual de hoje em dia, sabe que os resultados são fake. É necessário convence-lo que a acção é legitima, interessante e espectacular. É necessário apresentar-lhe personagens interessantes e storylines que o cativem e identifiquem o telespectador. E preciso mostrar atletas em forma, e alguém que explique ao Teixeira, que ninguém fica tão "grande e musculado" porque já ninguém toma esteróides ao pequeno-almoço,almoço e jantar como faziam na velhinha WCW.

isto foi apenas para responder ao número imenso de disparates e veneno que tens disparado nesta thread e no forum nos últimos dias. É a última vez que falo de draws, over e o caralh* contigo. Se quiseres falar do ponto de vista de um fã, tudo bem.

Vou falar agora do angle que trouxeste.

Sinceramente, não vejo o angle do Fingerpoke of Doom, como algo não tão grave como muita gente a quer pintar, embora esteja longe de ser genial. Mas sim, algo que até faz sentido. Não é totalmente descabido a Wolfpac voltar a aliar-se à nWo, mesmo tendo em conta que as duas facções terem estado a rivalizar. É até um pouco chiche, mas não é por isso que é grave. Só achei que o Hogan não devia ter trazido sapatinhos. Há coisas muito piores feitas pela WCW.
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Re: Revisitar a WCW

Mensagem por Conteúdo patrocinado


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